Early Correspondence Between A Detrans Radical Feminist and the Founder of FourthWaveNow

Originally published on Reclaiming Trans

Denise C, the founder of FourthWaveNow, corresponded with detransitioned radical feminists before she started her Tumblr and WordPress blogs. This correspondence took place between December 26th-27th 2014. Denise started her blogs in March of 2015.

Below are emails between Denise and Devorah Zahav, the detrans woman who blogs as Redress Alert. Zahav is a very important figure in the radical feminist detrans women’s community. In addition to writing a popular and influential blog, she engaged in much detrans organizing and activism, including helping to create the first online spaces for detrans and re-identified women and organizing the first in-person gatherings. She played a very influential role in creating the detrans radical feminist community and spreading a transphobic feminist interpretation of detransitioning and detrans womanhood.

In her introductory post on her blog, Devorah writes that she transitioned in the 90’s as young person due to internalized misogyny and has been detransitioned for over a decade. She said that she was “implicated in why so many young girls now think they’re trans, having helped create the increasingly toxic queer subculture they inhabit, so the least I can do now is model an alternative.” She also states that “[m]y jury is still out on whether there is any such thing as an ftm who transitions out of a motive besides internalized misogyny/trying to escape misogynist constraints” and claims to have never met a transmasculine person who didn’t seem to have such motivations. In another post she writes “[m]y unpopular perspective is that the adoption of trans identity is frequently a trauma response.”

Denise first contacted Devorah and later emailed 23xx (pronounced “23 times”), another detrans woman blogger, after Devorah advised her to get in contact with 23 and myself. Denise later forwarded me the emails she sent to Devorah and 23. I never responded to Denise’s emails, though I did talk to Devorah about them. I know that Devorah ended up corresponding with Denise’s kid after Denise put the two of them in contact with each other, though I don’t know how long this lasted or many other details beyond the fact that it happened.

These emails represent one of the first times a transphobic parent sought out the assistance of detrans women to help get their trans child to “desist”. This particular parent later became a prominent anti-trans activist who helped create and promote the “Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria” pseudo-diagnosis. She contacted an influential detrans radical feminist blogger/activist before starting her own website and engaging in anti-trans organizing. These emails also give some insight into her views before she started publishing her writing online. In her introductory blog post on Tumblr, she claims to have done a lot of research before becoming critical of modern trans politics and medical transition for young people but judging from what she wrote in her emails, it seems likely she was strongly against trans people and transitioning from the start. Especially since transphobic detrans women were much less visible or well-known in 2014 and not something one would likely stumble across by chance. Indeed, Denise seems to have specifically sought out the perspectives of people who had renounced their trans identity.

Denise C/FourthWaveNow is one of many transphobic parents who’ve turned to detrans women looking for advice and support. These parents turn to detrans women because they seem to offer hope that their child could eventually give up their trans identity and desire to transition. They attempt to use detrans women’s stories as proof that trans people’s identities are social fabrications and/or a symptom of mental illness and not an authentic expression of who we are. They especially like transphobic detrans women who denounce all trans identity as unreal and describe all transition as self-destructive medical abuse. Aside from drawing on transphobic detrans women’s stories and theories, they also try to use detrans women’s “alternative treatments” for gender dysphoria as a substitute for medical transition and a justification for disrespecting their child’s sense of self.

Transphobic detrans women’s stories and ideology have long influenced transphobic parents, helping them generate anti-trans theories and inspiring their activism. In return, anti-trans parents groups have offered transphobic detrans women a platform to share their work and spread their ideas. The two groups don’t always get along and have sometimes fallen into conflict with each other. Still they often end up collaborating, despite the tension between them, because they have similar end goals. Understanding the relationship between transphobic detrans communities and transphobic parent groups makes it easier to resist both.